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 Post subject: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 16:10 

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05 Sep 2011, 14:16
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Hello,

I'm new here and while I have done a bit in still 3D shooting I have not yet tried video 3D.

To put you in the picture fully, I have just got hold of an Optoma HD65 projector which I upgraded the firmware to be 3D-ready. Along with this I obtained an Optoma 3DXL adaptor and as I don't have a 3D player or Sky subscription, I have just been watching the 3D demo channels on the various satellites.

I have no intention of paying extortionate amounts each month to subscribe to Sky 3D channels, neither am I very interested in 3D 'movies'. I am more interested in 'serious' 3D contents such as Documentaries and so forth.

Ultimately I would like to create my own 3D HD clips.

I am a firm believer in 'DIY' so I don't really want (or can afford) the latest 3D cameras, so wondered if I could utilise my Panny SD5 camcorder, maybe getting a second one second hand. The problems I can see with this is the camera is rather 'fat' therefore spacing would be more than the usual 'eye-spacing' for 3D. However, I would probably be shooting things at a distance anyway (I shoot mainly steam locos). So the effect might be better with a larger separation. But the additional problem in using two SD5's is the irritating viewfinder fold-out screen which sticks out obstructing the other camera.

I know you can start shooting then close this door and it will continue to record, but it would then need me to attach the second camera ('left eye') after it is running and have to keep removing it and replacing for every clip.

Does anyone else use this method and is there a way to overcome this problem?

Many thanks.

Barry


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 18:04 
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You can use only the display on the left camcorder for planning the shots, having in mind what is the offset and considering what the right one will be capturing as well. Alternatively, instead of making a Side by Side camera rig, you could consider going for a DIY beam-splitter solution where the size of each camera won't be that much of a problem, although this is harder to make properly and more costly solution. And if you plan to be shooting mostly more distant objects A side by Side rig with the ability to get the two camcorders further apart may be the better choice...

But the bigger problem you should be considering how to control the two camcorders in sync or how to properly sync the footage you've shot afterwards... this would need some experimenting with different things until you find what gives you the best results.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 19:47 

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Thanks Bloody.

I am not thinking too far ahead yet so I have no idea which video editor I would be using. But would have thought it fairly easy to synchronise the footage in an app (eg 'Stereomoviemaker' which I saw somewhere). Not saying this will also do the job for me but surely any stereo video editor would handle sync-ing as an essential requirement?

I think as you say, a twin cam side-by-side setup would be best as it is easier, cheaper and if I stick with distant subjects should not be a big problem with the spacings.

Cheers.

Barry.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2011, 12:15 

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Hi again.

As I said, I am new to 3D video and am not fully conversant with what goes on and what fits where. :-)

Can I ask a simple question that may appear silly to you boffins but I just want a quick answer so I know where I am heading.

As mentioned above, I have an Optoma projector system that will display most 3D video formats and I hope to start doing my own in side-by-side format.

However, regarding PC involvement, is it possible to utilise my Optoma 3D glasses to view 3D content on my PC? Probably asking too much here but it would be very handy for testing anything out before getting the projector all set up.

I do have a fairly powerful PC and plenty of Ram.

Sorry for my ignorance.

Barry.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2011, 14:24 
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You can do the synchronization of the video you've shot in pretty much any video editor and then output the left and right video streams, the problem with that is you cannot always do perfect synchronization if the two camcorders are shooting with different settings and in time the difference may become bigger. When shooting with 25 fps each frame takes up 40 ms, so if the two camcorders have an offset of 1 full frame of 40 ms you can easily match them in the video editor, but what if the offset is just 5 ms or a fraction of a frame, there would still be some difference and if you have fast moving objects that could be even more serious problem. But you will see for yourself these issues when you start shooting and you will be able to understand them better...

As for being able to watch 3D content with the Optoma 3D projector and a pair of DLP Link glasses, there should be no problem for 3D videos. You will need a stereoscopic player capable of outputting in frame sequential mode such as The Stereoscopic Player where you need to use software pageflipping mode for output.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2011, 16:58 

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Thanks Bloody.

Understand better now re the two 'incompatibilities' between the cameras. I was not thinking (or rather had not yet experienced) the practical side of things. As you say, all these problems are something to look forward to. :-)

Thanks for the other info too. I think maybe I have misled you a little though. I meant to just use the glasses, looking at my PC monitor and viewing 3D clips on the monitor (not the projector). As I said, probably asking for too much here but thought I would ask.

Best regards,

Barry.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2011, 17:08 
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No, these will not work with the monitor even if it is a 3D one, the DLP Link glasses only work with 3D DLP projectors or 3D DLP HDTVs...


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 07 Sep 2011, 18:21 

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Thanks.

That is precisely what I feared, but was not 100% sure.

Ah well... worth a try. :-)

Cheers.

Barry.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 11:00 

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if your are thinking to the practical side of thing, just forget about dual camera setup.
it is a nightmare to use and after it is even more difficult to get proper result without a huge work
(mainly dealing with 2 unsynchronized clips).
for very cheap you can buy a samsung W3 or a sony 3D bloggie, but the best still be the little marvel from sony (the TD10) that is not so expensive.
if you plan to play from a computer, the TD10 is exactly what you need, if you plan to burn MVC blu-ray, the NX3D1 (twice the price) is recommended because the 24p format (Td10 is only 60i).
I used to make 3D with dual Sanyo FH1 but i give up very fast, because result is great but amount of work required is ok to get one minute or 2 of movie, but if you plan to produce real movie (lots of shots, movie over 15 min) , it is way too much work to stay acceptable.
So i switche from dual FH1 (1080p60) to Sony TD10E (1080i50), then to NX3D1 because of that limitation (blu-ray distribution)
So i got a TD10E for sale (for cheap and all new) and a dual sanyo FH1 +support for even cheaper.

In fact , i started 3D years ago with the NuView adapter , and it is really bad that nobody gave an opportunity to that great device.


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 Post subject: Re: Using standard HD camcorders for 3D
PostPosted: 15 Sep 2011, 11:12 

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22 Mar 2011, 00:34
Posts: 66
You could screw the adapter on any camera and shoot very nice 3D and still manage convergence with the viewfinder.
I still got it but it is not designed for new 16/9 camera , so you are limited to good old 4/3 DV camera.


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