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h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts - 3D Vision Blog - Forum



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 Post subject: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2011, 06:28 

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As many of you know there are a few options for those of us who want to decode 3D Blu-rays and create SBS backups or Dual file.
DVDFab supports half SBS (blah)
SIFF Sucka does dual file and SBS (full or half)
3DBD buster does the same as SIFF Sucka
I have a program similar to SIFF Sucka and 3DBD buster that does what they do and 2D>3D conversion as well as regular 2D backups of 2D discs, I haven't released it yet.

I don't know what DVDFab uses for MVC decoding but it is NOT what SIFF Sucka, 3DBD Buster and I use.

SIFF Suck, 3DBD buster and my program use a plugin for AVISynth that has circulated around the net, my copy is called H264StereoSource and it's usage is very simple, more on that later.

The problem with H264StereoSource is that if you make an AVS script, and load it up with the x264 encoder or FFMPEG or what ever other program you want that works with AVISynth, it is painfully slow. I can create a near perfect rip-recode of the right stream from a 3D Blu-ray as an h.264 (25000 bps) file using x264 but it runs at 3-5 fps. so for a 90 minute movie that is around 12 hours. I have an i7 processor! H264StereoSource only seems to work with the 32 bit version of x264, so no love for my x64 processor. It also doesn't seem to be multi-threaded. I know part of the 3FPS encode is the fact that it is making a high quality single pass H.264 at a Blu-ray quality bit rate. I don't get a very fast encode from raw video either for example a 1080P YUV file encodes at like 12-20FPS. I know that anytime you use AVISynth even if it is just to load a DirectShow source it slows things down.

Anyway now I will get to my point. My point is that the latest version of Stereoscopic player (not listed on the website yet, link on Peter's Facebook page) can read SSIF files an play them right off the disc. This is nothing new of course; it is something that PDVD, Corel, and TMT have also. But Peter's Stereoscopic player is the first one I have seen that does real-time decoding without being one of those major huge companies that make crappy rip off software. The real point is that the first thing that SS player did when I installed the new version and tried to load a SSIF off a Blu-ray disc was ask me to download FFDShow, of course I have that installed but not the latest one that it linked me to. v1.1.3760 dated 2/18/11. So obviously I installed that. That got me thinking is the MVC decoding free as part of FFDShow? Well I did a little searching about MVC and FFDShow and I got a bunch of results that were like "wouldn't it be nice if/when FFDShow supports MVC?" Anyway, I guess it is something that Peter built himself, leveraging the latest FFDShow.

That is cool and all but sometimes playing a SSIF off a disc is a crap way to watch a movie. If you have ever used eac3to you will notice that sometimes it pulls the whole movie from one m2ts file and other times it pulls it from 2 or more m2ts files. You will see this most often with a BD that has a theatric version and directors cut on the same disc. These discs make use of seamless branching. The idea is they break apart all the chapters into separate m2ts files and then the can reuse the same chapters across both movies then add some chapters to the extended cut or put in alt versions in that cut. I am getting a little closer to my point, so far all the 3D Blu-rays that I have are not set up with seamless branching... but I do have on 3DBD that is split into two parts. Piranha 3D is split into 4 m2ts files and or 2 SSIF files.

I guess I need to back up for a second and explain how the SSIF and M2TS work and how the SSIF file doesn’t really have anything in it, it is just 2 m2ts files linked together as a sort of shortcut. So if you look at a 3DBD with eac3to you see titles listed, it'll tell you what m2ts files make up each title (remember branching above?) A SSIF file can also be inspected with eac3to, if you point to the full path. It is really simple, a basic example would be 00000.m2ts contains left view and some audio and subs 00001.m2ts has only the delta (or difference) between the right and left view. If you go into the SSIF directory you will see 00000.ssif which is both of the aforementioned m2ts files linked together. This is really cool because say the left h.264 stream is 20 GB, the right stream is only storing the difference between right and left so it will be smaller like 11 GB (keep in mind this is an example, on any given disc the numbering and sizes will be different)
So MVC is great for saving space, take for example Avatar, long movie with HD sound etc. The left h.264 stream is 23.9 GB and the right delta is only 11.9 GB… imagine if they didn’t do MVC encoding and just stored the full right stream. You would have 47.8 GB of video on a 50 GB disc. You might be able to cram an old Dobly Digital ac3 file on there since that is only 740 MB for a movie that length. You would NOT have space for the 4.68GB DTS Ma track. So as you can see it is essential that Blu-ray uses MVC to fit a quality encode on a 50 GB disc. Well that is great but I can’t do anything with MVC encoded content unless I want to play it with StereoScopic player (an awesome program) or one of the crappy BD players like PDVD. I don’t like watching the extra crap on a Blu-ray most of the time. I have a lot of work and I like backups (MKV) because the movies just starts, I don’t have to fight with the stupid menus or watch previews I’ve already seen.
Now back to the Seamless branching bit, as I said before, I have not seen any seamless branched 3DBD, and I have almost every popular commercial title available. (That is Kind of funny considering I don’t have a 3D Blu-ray player or a 3D TV) Anyway Piranha 3D is split into 2 parts 00009.ssif (13.4 GB) and 00010.ssif (10.8 GB). If I were to watch it straight off the disc with stereoscopic payer it would stop a little after half way and I would need to load up 00010.ssif. I think that sucks. Also it is only a matter of time before they release Seamless branched versions of new titles or titles they have already released (the classic double-dip)
My other problem with Piranha is that for whatever reason the right seems to have some mastering errors or my H264StereoSource.dll doesn’t understand it correctly. So the resultant dual MKV doesn’t work right because the h.264 file in the right MKV has a couple corrupted spots. I have re-ripped it a couple times. I have done it will my program SSIF Suck and 3DBD buster and by hand using the command line. I have made some interesting discoveries. The corrupted spot happens at the same spot if I used 3DBD buster as when I use my program or just write all the commands at the command prompt. The file that SSIF sucka produces is also corrupted but at a different spot. The guy who made SSIF Sucka has the source code for the H264StereoSource.dll that I am using and it seems he has made some modifications that make it a little better and more reliable, but not any faster. I wish I had the source code so I could make an x64 compilation.
Anyway, this was a lot of ranting and rambling. I started a batch with FFMPEG/AVISynth last night and it is nearly done now. The job is decoding the right stream of Piranha to a PNG sequence. The final output will be about 330GB. I can then use AVISynth and x264 to encode the right stream back to H.264. If the frames done match up when I encode and remux I will be able to fix the errors since I have each frame in a lossless file. This is the only 3DBD that has given me these sort of problems. I think it is mostly the fault of the DLL, but it could just be some sort of mastering error.
One other thing that is interesting is that SIFF Sucka and 3DBD buster seem to like to pipe the output from FFMPEG to YUV to x264. I think this is only done so that they can use FFMPEG to do preview pictures each second.
Image sequences are most interesting to me as of recent. I have been studying the creation of Digital Cinema Packages. I am interested in film making and Post Production is as crucial a step as any… final presentation.

WHERE IS MY REALTIME MVC DECODER THAT I CAN USE WITH AVISYNTH/FFMPEG/X264/VIRTUALDUB?
I would even use some totally other thing as long as it could pipe the output or store a lossless temp file, like YUV or some sort of image sequence. Arg, I want to do lots of experiments, but every damn thing I do takes 12 hours to run. I guess I need to get a 6 core i7 and give my poor little dual core 620M a rest. I have this VAIO’s CPU fan sounding like a hovercraft 24/7
By the way I love this forum, I love 3D, and I am interested in your thoughts on MVC decoding or even remuxing? That would be cool if we could get single file Stereoscopic MKV with MVC right inside.
END RAMBLINGS
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2011, 10:06 
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Have you tried using the MT function in avisynth to run it in a multithreaded mode?


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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2011, 15:49 

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If there is a cheap MVC codec out there, its not made its way into the search engines yet. I check every few days for the same reasons.


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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2011, 18:32 

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Nope, haven't tried that. I'll try it tonight, I have to do actual work that I get paid for right now.

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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2011, 05:07 

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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2011, 14:25 

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I figured out that the problem that I was having with Piranha was actually a corrupted audio track. I decoded the audio down to WAVs and re-encoded it to DTS using eac3to and the Surcode DTS encoder. I haven't tried my new audio track but the video tracks work fine without the audio.

This reminds me of intentional DVD mastering errors to prevent DVD Decrypter from working before RipIt4Me came along and sorted that out.

Still haven't gotten MT working the way I want or at all. Haven't played with it much though. I should try something simple with it, not MVC decoding, to get a feel for scripting with MT.

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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 14 Mar 2011, 20:05 

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For 3D MVC based videos, we are about to release our 3D CoreMVC video decoder as a directshow filter after we get CoreAVC 2.5 out later this month. Note however (and why I am posting here) it will be included first in the Stereoscopic Player.

Look for the release soon.


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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2011, 01:30 
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Great news, thanks for sharing it with us...

So the Stereoscopic player is getting a MVC decoder after all.


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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 22 Mar 2011, 22:06 

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 Post subject: Re: h.264 MVC Decoding and random thoughts
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2011, 16:59 

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I like the latest SS player a lot, I don't know how much I care about making rips anymore since SS player plays right off my mounted ISOs.
The only thing I wish that Peter would add is the ability for SS player to read the mpls files so that I wouldn't have to change files part way through movies like Tron or Piranha for example.

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