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Stereo 3D Display Crosstalk Test Photos With Some Results

December 14th, 2010 · 29 Comments · GeForce 3D Vision



I’ve prepared two sample stereoscopic 3D photos in a Side by Side (JPS) format for testing the level of crosstalk/ghosting on 3D-capable displays, you can see how the files look like in the small versions above and in order to download the JPS files just right click on them and and select “Save Target As”. As you can see the test photos contain a photo only in one side and the other side is filled with white and black color in order to make the level of crosstalk/ghosting more apparent and easily viewable. Just open the two photos and look only through the left lens (close your right eye) in order to see the part of the image that is “leaking” from the one intended for the other eye. You can take a photo through the left lens and post the results below, just like the following examples…



Here is how the two test photos look like through the 3D Vision glasses’ left lens on a Samsung 2233RZ 3D-capable LCD monitor. As you can see there is ghosting visible with both test photos and there is a bit more at the top and bottom of the screen. The crosstalk you see here is due to the slower response time of the pixels on the screen and it is different due to the difference in transition between the displayed color on the photo and the white and black (the two extremes).



The situation with the test photos on Panasonic Viera VT20E 3D HDTV is a bit different, as there is no visual ghosting seen in the transition to white, but there is some ghosting visible with the transition to black (with some yellowish tint due to the glasses). Generally the plasma TVs have faster response time, but they are not completely ghosting free either, still the situation is better than on 3D LCD monitors as you can see comparing to the results from the Samsung monitor above.

You are also more than welcome to download, try, document the results on your 3D-capable display and then post the photos in the comments below, so that we can get a batter comparison between different 3D computer monitors and 3D TV sets…


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29 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Chris K. // Dec 14, 2010 at 02:39

    Interesting analysis, have been considering a plasma display and this dissuades me (that and the increased power requirement.)

    Although I’m a little confused, why not have “left eye => white, right eye => black” to measure the most extreme condition for crosstalk?

    I’m particularly curious how DLP holds up in the crosstalk test. Also, could a test be devised that would isolate the crosstalk due to display rise/fall timing issues versus the crosstalk caused by the LCD shutters in the glasses (if there is any?)

  • 2 Bloody // Dec 14, 2010 at 09:05

    With black and white frames it is much harder to visually “measure” as you would only see some shade of gray, but it is harder to tell which is better only by looking at it.

    I’m also quite curious how will a 3D DLP perform….

  • 3 john // Dec 14, 2010 at 17:38

    Interesting read
    Are the 3d lcd tvs any better than the lcd monitors at the moment in terms of crosstalk etc.?

  • 4 Bloody // Dec 14, 2010 at 18:01

    Yes, 3D LCD TVs should also be better than LCD monitors in terms of crosstalk, but it is hard to compare them… this is why we need more people to share their results with the test photos above.

  • 5 Nick 3DvB // Dec 14, 2010 at 18:40

    I am sure DLP systems will show very little cross-talk. I tested the “DLP Dual View” mode on my Optoma ZD101 glasses by loading two different videos as left and right in Stereoscopic player and using the button on the glasses to switch between them, there was almost no visable cross-talk. I am away from home at the moment but I will try and test these photos on my projector when I get back next week.

    I found a good cross-talk test video here:

    http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7350380/3.ts

  • 6 LoneThread // Dec 15, 2010 at 03:00

    Very good images, I’m pretty unhappy about the results I got.
    I have the Zalman Trimon Polarized Monitor. It performed perfectly (No ghosting at all) in the White image, however on the Black image I had 100% clear ghosting (It was just much darker)

    This however matches the Sky TV advert in UK Cinema’s, the advert has a black background and has major ghosting.

    Is this normal for polarized setups??

  • 7 Peter // Dec 15, 2010 at 03:34

    On my Acer Aspire 5745DG-7950 I see some ghosting on the white image and a *LOT* of ghosting on the black display.

  • 8 mike // Dec 15, 2010 at 14:01

    Hi,
    i have the samsung c750 40″ 3dtv and with teh black test i have around 50%+ ghosting meaning i can see the picture in the black extremely bad, but using the white i can only see about 1% ghosting and that’s in only a tiny portion of the screen.
    So black is terrible and white is very near perfect, would love to onow what this means in technicle terms if possible?

  • 9 StarKnight // Dec 15, 2010 at 18:02

    Have you tried playing with the service menu of the VT20 (“Vol-” on the left side + number “0″ three times on the RC) to find out if there is a way to minimize ghosting (eg. changing the refresh speed of the panel just like the 3D Vision kit lets you chose between 120, 110 and 100Hz) ?

  • 10 Mathew Orman // Dec 16, 2010 at 02:17

    To be fair, ghosting should be tested with optimal stereoscopic image. So if there is a firmware or hardware which reduces the ghosting it will have a chance to perform.

    Mathew Orman

  • 11 Chris // Dec 16, 2010 at 16:10

    Done some testing on my Asus, pretty shocking really as mine seems to have a green patch on the bottom left that shows some crosstalk as well as a massive amount at the top.

    I will be sending this one back i think, although it is better than my acer was i really am not happy with it at all! *pulls mad face*

    http://www.plantmasteruk.com/crosstalksamples.jpg

  • 12 jodo // Dec 19, 2010 at 13:24

    StarKnight is right in that you can probably reduce crosstalk by decreasing the refresh rate, however, that would only work well for photos, on the vt25,, its available rates are 96Hz, 48Hz, 120Hz. The first two provide an inferior experience when watching video, I hear. Analogously, the rates on the vt20e may be 100Hz, 50Hz, 120Hz. Worth trying anyway, imo.

  • 13 Bloody // Dec 19, 2010 at 14:13

    Slower refresh rate means more time for the pixel to change from one state to another and that is leading to less ghosting if the reason is that the pixels can’t change fast enough at 120Hz, they may be able to do better in 100Hz.

  • 14 valrond // Dec 23, 2010 at 12:33

    My Asus VG236H must be faulty. I get these images:

    http://img253.imageshack.us/i/negrot.jpg/
    http://img716.imageshack.us/i/blancof.jpg/

    Yes, those are through the left eye, I see way too much.

  • 15 Bloody // Dec 23, 2010 at 16:23

    It seems a bit too much, but I cannot tell if this is the normal for the Asus as I haven’t tried with these test photos. Is that at the default settings of the monitor and also shot with 1/60th of a second shutter speed on the camera?

  • 16 valrond // Dec 23, 2010 at 17:19

    Yes, it’s the default setting. Anyway, the Asus can only change the contrast in 3D mode.
    The white picture was taken at 1/60, and the black one at 1/10, both at ISO 800 and -0.7 EV, as I used my Minolta 50mm f1.7 on my Sony A550.

  • 17 LoneThread // Dec 23, 2010 at 18:08

    I’m very disappointed to see no one with a DLP Projector has posted results, I really wanted to know how well they perform.

  • 18 Bloody // Dec 23, 2010 at 18:15

    valrond, try again with the black again at 1/60, at 1/10 you allow much more light to pass to the camera sensor (from multiple refreshes).

    LoneThread, 3D DLP projectors are much better in terms of crosstalk, so they should have very little or none visible at all. Still somebody with a projector can post his results just to be sure… ;)

  • 19 valrond // Dec 24, 2010 at 02:48

    Thanks for your help, bloody. I had already given up, packed the monitor to get a refund, I’m still in my first 7 days, so I can get it. But I have still 3 days to test it, as I can’t send it till monday, so I have taken it out to try it a little more.
    Aside from the 1/60 shutter speed, do I have to set any other values, like aperture or EV?

  • 20 Bloody // Dec 24, 2010 at 12:52

    Well, for other settings it can be dependent on the camera type, but in general you should try to reproduce on the photo the level you see with your eyes when looking through the glasses. If when looking with your eyes the image that is leaking is still too bright, then there is probably something wrong.

  • 21 valrond // Dec 24, 2010 at 14:18

    Thanks. I have taken the pictures the closest I see it in my eyes. Both at 1/60 F2 Iso 800. They are better, but still a lot of crosstalk. Is this normal or do I have a bad monitor/glasses?

    http://img192.imageshack.us/i/negro2a.jpg/
    http://img207.imageshack.us/i/blanco2.jpg/

  • 22 Bloody // Dec 24, 2010 at 15:16

    Well, these results are more like it, it is possible that these results are to be expected from the Asus monitor. Now somebody else that has it can try and confirm if he is getting the same crosstalk as you.

  • 23 Freke1 // Jan 1, 2011 at 22:15

    My 3D TV’s ghosting – Samsung PS50B450 (the pixels turn white fast, but doesn’t turn black fast enough). Samsungs 1st 3D TV from 2009:
    http://img585.imageshack.us/i/samsungps50b450ghosting.jpg/

  • 24 Sayajin // Jan 15, 2011 at 19:54

    To all. Well i want to say, that this test is extreme case (almost absolutely contrast scenes), and there are little chances that you will (if ever) experience it. So don’t worry :) Just, you know, the first rule of good stereoscopic experience states “equal brightness and color in both eyes” and then the second recommends to “reduce contrast for scenes with much separation and sharp and contrast details”. Actually for those dark scenes with bright objects too look better the best u can do is simply to gain black level. Don’t forget, that digital camera has much narrower dynamic range than our eyes do, and it usually to overexposure dark scenes, so while the result some times can be similar, in some situations camera picks quite differently looking (from our vision) shots. And again it’s just single (well double) sintetic test scenario – mainly for static measuring and comparison, so you better rely on your personal visual experience and comfort during actual gaming, video/photo viewing.
    To LoneThread. Yes it is ‘normal feature’ of cheaper polarizers (which Zalman unfortunately make use of) to leak too much light of diff. polarisation and so cause visible ghosting. Today exist polarizing filters which can achieve brilliant quality with ratios up to ~1350:1 with ~45% transmitance or even up to ~1750:1 with up to ~60-70% trans. (specially for some types of LCDs) but they are rather expensive and so very rarely used both for displays and glasses, even in some cinemas.
    To Freke1. Very strange results for plasma screen (though i noticed latency of 4ms and it’s way too much for plasma – actually bigger than that being ‘marketed’ for LCDs!) Do you see similarly with your eyes? Or maybe your camera has overexposured the dark scene? As author here said, it’s important to take both pictures with the same settings, namely – exposure (shutter) time (I would recommend even less than 1/60th sec), ISO sensitivity and white balance!
    (Sorry for my bad english)

  • 25 quisp65 // Mar 16, 2012 at 18:17

    Acer 27 inch polarized HR274H produced quite a bit on the black but none on the white.

    I wonder if there would be a way to use numbers 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 and have the numbers change their degree of lightness to where depending on the degree of ghosting more numbers would show if there was more ghosting. This way we could compare. Maybe if I stated I just barely saw number 7 then someone could compare with their brand. Best to have center of the screen numbers 1-10 and then also 1-10 on each corner.

  • 26 Richard S // Jan 8, 2013 at 14:25

    I get on my Sony KDl46-HX853:

    White – I see one eye of full white with no visable leaking, but the other eye I get a too bright version of the picture (suggesting that the white is coming through)

    Black – I see one eye of the picture perfectly, but the other, which should be black, I see the full picture! Its a darker version but its the full picture.

    Should i worry…?!

    Thanks

  • 27 Bo3b Johnson // Feb 19, 2013 at 12:26

    Didn’t look like anyone had added pictures of DLP projector, so please take a look at these.

    For the black on right, plants on left (sorry, please note the picture is sub-optimal. There is a reflective bookcase to the left, and that shimmer you see is that reflection. Center of image is correct):

    http://bo3b.net/ghost/black.JPG

    For the white on right, plants on left (you can see edge of bookcase here):

    http://bo3b.net/ghost/white.JPG

    The images with no glasses, the double-images:

    http://bo3b.net/ghost/double-black.JPG
    http://bo3b.net/ghost/double-white.JPG

  • 28 Bloody // Feb 19, 2013 at 15:53

    3D DLP projectors are crosstalk free, so not much point in trying to find some ;)

  • 29 Bo3b Johnson // Feb 20, 2013 at 03:33

    Yep, but thought it might be helpful for people to see just how much better DLP is, when compared using the same technique.

    Also the glasses are still a possible weak link. We were having a discussion here:

    https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/529466/3d-vision/3d-on-videoprojector/1

    Here’s an example of the worst ghosting I could find with the NVidia glasses+H5360 DLP combo:

    http://bo3b.net/ghost/invert.JPG

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